Vedanta Sutra 4.3.16
Adhikarana IX.
Now the author teaches that as regards certain NirapekSas the Lord Himself comes to take them to His abode and does not leave that task to any of His messengers.
Visaya: In the Gopala Purva Tapani we have the following:-
Doubt: Are the Nirapeksa [sannyasi] worshippers of the Lord carried also by the AtivAhika divinities to the Lord, or are they carried by the Lord Himself.
Purvapaksa: The opponent maintains the view that the Lord Himself carries no one. The scriptures mention only two paths, the path of the Devas and the path of the PitRis. All knowers of Brahman have to go by the path of light, and are to be carried by the divinities of that path. The scripture also declares that the Lord is the causal agent in everything, for He never directly does anything. His agents work out His will.
Siddhanta: This view is set aside in the next sUtra.
The general rule is no doubt that the conducting divinities carry all the knowers of Brahman to Brahman. But with regard to those Nirapeksa devotees who are extremely ardent, and much suffering in their yearning, in their case the Lord Himself comes to fetch them to Himself; because He Himself feels impatient to bring such souls at once to Him. This is a special case only. The scripture also shows this. The two verses of the Gopala Tapani quoted above are an authority for this proposition.
In the Gita also [12.6-7] we find that the Lord Himself comes to carry His ardent devotees to Himself:
The word "Cha", "and", used in the sUtra means by implication that as soon as such devotees die and shake off final body or LiGga Deha, the Lord gives them the celestial or apRAkritic body at once. These devotees get rid of their LiGga Deha along with their physical body, at the time of death. Other devotees have to remain in their LiGga Deha for some time after death.
Nor is it correct to say that there are only two paths and no third, and that all the knowers of Brahman must pass over the road to archirAdi, to the abode of the Lord. For in the Varaha Purana we have the following:
Therefore, what the author has said is perfectly correct. The above passage is to be found at the end of the Varaha Purana.
Now the author teaches that as regards certain NirapekSas the Lord Himself comes to take them to His abode and does not leave that task to any of His messengers.
Visaya: In the Gopala Purva Tapani we have the following:-
1. They who constantly harmonised and without heedlessness fully worship the Supreme state of Vishnu, not with the desire of getting rewards, to them that Cow-herd-shaped One verily then carefully reveals his own state.
2. He who repeats silently this five-syllabled prayer of Govinda with the word 'Om' preceding it, him verily the Lord Himself shows His own Form, therefore, let the seeker of freedom always recite this mantra in order to get eternal peace.
Doubt: Are the Nirapeksa [sannyasi] worshippers of the Lord carried also by the AtivAhika divinities to the Lord, or are they carried by the Lord Himself.
Purvapaksa: The opponent maintains the view that the Lord Himself carries no one. The scriptures mention only two paths, the path of the Devas and the path of the PitRis. All knowers of Brahman have to go by the path of light, and are to be carried by the divinities of that path. The scripture also declares that the Lord is the causal agent in everything, for He never directly does anything. His agents work out His will.
Siddhanta: This view is set aside in the next sUtra.
vizeSam ca darzayati
16. And the Scripture itself shows the special case
with regard to some Nirapeksas. - 537.
with regard to some Nirapeksas. - 537.
COMMENTARY
The general rule is no doubt that the conducting divinities carry all the knowers of Brahman to Brahman. But with regard to those Nirapeksa devotees who are extremely ardent, and much suffering in their yearning, in their case the Lord Himself comes to fetch them to Himself; because He Himself feels impatient to bring such souls at once to Him. This is a special case only. The scripture also shows this. The two verses of the Gopala Tapani quoted above are an authority for this proposition.
In the Gita also [12.6-7] we find that the Lord Himself comes to carry His ardent devotees to Himself:
ye tu sarvāṇi karmāṇi
mayi sannyasya mat-parāḥ
ananyenaiva yogena
māḿ dhyāyanta upāsate
mayi sannyasya mat-parāḥ
ananyenaiva yogena
māḿ dhyāyanta upāsate
"Those verily who, renouncing all actions in Me and
intent on Me, worship meditating in Me, with whole-hearted Yoga."
intent on Me, worship meditating in Me, with whole-hearted Yoga."
teṣām ahaḿ samuddhartā
mṛtyu-saḿsāra-sāgarāt
bhavāmi na cirāt pārtha
mayy āveśita-cetasām
"Those I speedily lift up from the ocean of death and
existence, O Partha, their minds being fixed on me."
mṛtyu-saḿsāra-sāgarāt
bhavāmi na cirāt pārtha
mayy āveśita-cetasām
"Those I speedily lift up from the ocean of death and
existence, O Partha, their minds being fixed on me."
The word "Cha", "and", used in the sUtra means by implication that as soon as such devotees die and shake off final body or LiGga Deha, the Lord gives them the celestial or apRAkritic body at once. These devotees get rid of their LiGga Deha along with their physical body, at the time of death. Other devotees have to remain in their LiGga Deha for some time after death.
Nor is it correct to say that there are only two paths and no third, and that all the knowers of Brahman must pass over the road to archirAdi, to the abode of the Lord. For in the Varaha Purana we have the following:
"I bring him seated on the shoulder of Garuda, without hindrance and according to my own will, to my Supreme abode, by a path other than that of archirAdi."
Therefore, what the author has said is perfectly correct. The above passage is to be found at the end of the Varaha Purana.
posted by "Gaurasundara das" @ 03:16
4 Comments:
At 10 August, 2006 12:01,
Anonymous said…
Gaurasundara's translation:
The word "Cha", "and", used in the sUtra means by implication that as soon as such devotees die and shake off final body or LiGga Deha, the Lord gives them the celestial or apRAkritic body at once. These devotees get rid of their LiGga Deha along with their physical body, at the time of death. Other devotees have to remain in their LiGga Deha for some time after death.
=========
But in the Bhasya it does not say the soul is given a body by the Lord, it says the soul receives his body. Where from? That is not clear here. It is not explained where from.
At 11 August, 2006 01:21,
"Gaurasundara das" said…
This is not my translation, it is Vasu's.
Where is the body received from? Jiva Gosvami explains in Priti Sandarbha 10 that the siddha-deha is in actuality a particle of light ([i]jyotir-aMza[/i]):
"The Lord makes a body for the liberated one that is identical to those eternal bodies of the people of Vaikuntha (Vraja), which consist of a particle of light from the Lord of Vaikuntha (Vraja)."
As far as Srimat Baladeva is concerned, there is no need to explain this point because this Sutra actually deals with the question of who will personally transport the mukta to Vaikuntha, the Lord Himself or His messengers? Therefore it is not important (yet) how he gets a body or what type of body he will get. The question of getting a body is dealt with in the next few sutras.
Also, the question of "receiving" a body or being "given" one clearly impocates the notion of receiving it from an "outside source", which itself shows that the siddha-deha is not inherent. :-)
At 11 August, 2006 19:44,
Anonymous said…
Gaurasundara wrote:
Where is the body received from? Jiva Gosvami explains in Priti Sandarbha 10 that the siddha-deha is in actuality a particle of light ([i]jyotir-aMza[/i]):
"The Lord makes a body for the liberated one that is identical to those eternal bodies of the people of Vaikuntha (Vraja), which consist of a particle of light from the Lord of Vaikuntha (Vraja)."
----
reply:
The jiva soul is a particle of brahman (jyoti; light). Please advise me where in the scriptures it says that a particle of light from some other location (Vaikuntha) becomes attached to the jivaatma particle of light?
Might it not be that the particle of light being referred to is the jiva himself?
Further, what about this statement by Srila Sanatan Goswami in his commentary to verse 2.2.208 of Brhadbhagavatamrtam:
Even the liberated souls who have merged into the formless divine light of Brahman retain their spiritual bodies, complete with spiritual mind and senses. Nothing, not even liberation, can ever deprive a jiva of these assets. When a liberated soul gains the favour of the Supreme Lord's personal energy, his spiritual body and senses are reawakened for hearing and chanting the glories of Lord Hari and acting in other ways for the Lord's pleasure.
Only non-devotees enter into nirvisesha-brahma. This being so, we know Sanatan Goswami is talking about souls who have never engaged in Visnu bhakti. Sanatan Goswami clearly states that the souls merged in Brahman do not lose the spiritual bodies that they ALREADY HAVE.
---
Gaurasundara also wrote:
Also, the question of "receiving" a body or being "given" one clearly impocates the notion of receiving it from an "outside source", which itself shows that the siddha-deha is not inherent. :-)
reply:
Vedanta Sutra verse 4.4.12 states that a liberated soul may manifest a body or not manifest a body - whatever the soul WILLS is achieved. In his liberated state, enjoying union with the Lord of His Life, the soul is able to manifest opulences by the power of the Lord of His Heart Who he finds within himself. Is the Paramatma an "outside source"? Rather, we might think the spiritual body is "made" when the soul decides or "wills" to have a form that will enable them to offer seva to Bhagavan. As per the commentary of Sanatan Goswami (2.2.208) just given.
Additionally, Srila Sanatan Goswami writes in Brhadbhagavatamrtam 2.4.92:
Though like everyone else in Vaikuntha I was approached by transcendental opulences, I avoided them. I refused to show even the splendours that spontaneously appeared within me. I resided there in the same form that I had always had, that of a cowherd boy.
At 12 August, 2006 01:59,
"Gaurasundara das" said…
>> The jiva soul is a particle of brahman (jyoti; light). Please advise me where in the scriptures it says that a particle of light from some other location (Vaikuntha) becomes attached to the jivaatma particle of light?
Might it not be that the particle of light being referred to is the jiva himself?<<
As far as I am aware, and pending further confirmation, the verse in Priti Sandarbha is as follows:
"The Lord makes a body for the liberated one that is identical to those eternal bodies of the people of Vaikuntha (Vraja), which consist of a particle of light from the Lord of Vaikuntha (Vraja)."
I can only infer that since the whole process of raganuga-bhakti/lila-smarana is to attain a spiritual body, I don't see anything unusual about the attained body being a particle of light. Besides, the "particle of light" is merely a technical term when we all know that the siddha-deha is itself a body with mind, clothes, name, form, etc. I suspect that the "particle of light" issue relates to the deha's being made of cit-sakti. Or something similar in regards to "spiritual stuff".
In my opinion, it doesn't really make sense to consider the particle of light to be the jiva anyway.
>> Further, what about this statement by Srila Sanatan Goswami in his commentary to verse 2.2.208 of Brhadbhagavatamrtam: ... Only non-devotees enter into nirvisesha-brahma. This being so, we know Sanatan Goswami is talking about souls who have never engaged in Visnu bhakti. Sanatan Goswami clearly states that the souls merged in Brahman do not lose the spiritual bodies that they ALREADY HAVE. <<
First, I'd like to state for the record that I have never read Srimat Sanatanapada's Brihad-bhagavatamrta in any depth, although I have read synopses of it which are insufficient for obvious reasons. So I am not familiar one way or another with what he is discussing.
But based on the quotes that you provide as well as your statement about mergers into Brahman "already having" spiritual bodies, I fail to see how this is possible when, in his commentary to VS 1.1.2, Srimat Baladeva confirms that the "liberated state" as attained by Advaitins is garbage more or less?
"The adwaita is a state of no fruitions. The holders of this theory maintain that the soul in release is in absolute isolation. And since the adwaitins do not acknowledge the existence of consciousness in the state of mokSa, that state is as good as non-existent." (SBV's bhashya to VS 1.1.2)
Srimat Sanatanapada must be referring to something else as far as I can tell. Or, as a personal, preference, I would doubt the veracity of Gopiparanadhana's translation given ISKCON's leaning towards the "fall from Vaikuntha" doctrine and other ideas that may conflict with proper tattva.
>> In his liberated state, enjoying union with the Lord of His Life, the soul is able to manifest opulences by the power of the Lord of His Heart Who he finds within himself. Is the Paramatma an "outside source"? <<
VS 4.4.12 does not speak about realising the "Lord within", but about Bhagavan-realisation (brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate).
And yes, on a technical note, the Paramatma is an "outside" source by virtue of Svetasvatara Upanishad 4.6.7 (dva suparna sayuja sakhaya, etc.) which is oft-quoted by Srimat Baladeva.
I'll ask Advaitaji what he thinks, he is far more learned in these matters.
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